How to Build (and Enjoy) Your “Dream” Life in Early Retirement

Mindy:
Today we are talking to one of the most boring men in the world, Chris Rusin. Chris Dove for treasure with Navy Seals in the Florida Keys. He helped discover one of the largest Toro OSA specimens ever found. Searched for the ghost of Tom Petty with Carl. Wrote a screenplay, just released an album and survived a deadly disease, and he’s not even 50 yet. Hi there. I’m Mindy Jensen.

Carl:
And I’m Carl Jensen.

Mindy:
And this is the Mindy

Carl:
And Carl

Mindy:
On Life After Fi show, where we talk about what happens after you reach financial independence.

Carl:
Why do we call this show Life After Fire?

Mindy:
Because we’re talking about and talking to people who are living their best life after reaching phi. Let’s start out with the most interesting part, his PHI journey. Chris, tell us when you discovered the concept of financial independence.

Chris:
Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me on. It’s really fun to be here. Yeah. So to answer your question, when did I first find out about phi? It was after I was already phi, and so I had kind of been thinking about these concepts. I thought I had come up with something brand new, and then I started googling around and I actually found Carl’s blog first 1500 days. And then I found out, hey, he lives no more than less than a hundred miles from my house, and so does this guy, Mr. Money mustache. And from there, Carl and I ended up, I reached out, I emailed amazingly, he responded, and we met up for a beer at a brewery, and the rest is history. And so I didn’t find out about PHI until I had already thought I invented it and then realized, no, I hadn’t. But that’s great because there’s a bunch of other people I could hang out with.

Mindy:
If you were already financially independent, what were you looking for that caused you to discover Carl’s blog?

Chris:
At the time, I was working at a startup and we were trying to close a round of funding. In came a really wealthy potential investor and he is worth about a half a billion dollars with a B. He kind of threw his keys on the table and they had a Ferrari and a Porsche key chain, and he made a big show out of it. And then we were kind of telling him about our company, but he started talking about money and he was saying, when you have more money, people want something from you, and some people feel like you give them too much money and others not enough. And then he just looked around our crappy office and he said, remember this time, this is the happiest you’ll ever be, and working at a startup is rough. And so I was thinking, this guy doesn’t seem very happy, and if I’m going to try to grow into over time, that’s not the kind of life I want. And so I started kind of thinking about how much money do you need to never have to work again? What if I stopped working for other people for money and started working for myself for happiness? And that was kind of the crux of the discovery process. And that’s when I started googling around. I don’t even remember what that first search was, but it was probably something like that. What do you do when you don’t need to work anymore? Or how much do I need to not have to work?

Mindy:
So Chris, I would like to talk a little bit more about how you got to this position of financial independence. You said you were a tech worker. What was your job and what was your savings rate? Did you track any of that?

Chris:
We were wanting to get ahead and kind of didn’t have money coming out of college. We were down to the point where we couldn’t pay rent. And so my drive was to alleviate that. I started work as a mechanical engineer and I wanted to get ahead. And so what I would do is I would push for raises. What can I do to get the next rung? What can I do to get a 20% raise by the end of this year? And when you pose that question to a boss, no one wants to tell you that’s not possible because then you’re not motivated, you don’t feel a path to success. And so they give you a path to success, and that path is often really aggressive. I would pursue that every raise, every review. And so over the first eight years of working, I think I averaged around 20% raises every year, which when that compounds up, really increases your earnings. At the same time my wife was working, we saving over 50% of what we brought in, and so we were living off a little less than one salary and saving the entire other one because of that experience, because we didn’t want to find ourselves out of work and unable to get a job again. So that was our early process.

Mindy:
My dear listeners, we are so excited to announce that we have a new BiggerPockets money newsletter. If you would like to subscribe, you can go to biggerpockets.com/money newsletter while we take this quick break.

Carl:
Welcome back to the show.

Mindy:
We haven’t really talked about any of the amazing accomplishments you’ve had yet, but let’s talk about surviving a deadly disease.

Chris:
Yeah, so I just, last week actually had my, or was it? Yeah, just last week, had my three year post chemo and I am still cancer free, but that’s what

Mindy:
I, yay, hooray, Carl say, yay.

Chris:
Yay.

Mindy:
That was the worst. Yay ever. I will be very excited for

Chris:
You. I know you’re excited on the inside, Carl.

Carl:
I’m deeply happy for Chris. Yes, for many reasons. Good job, Chris.

Chris:
So yeah, to talk about that a little bit, I had been doing a number of the adventures that you alluded to in that super kind intro and then was at a spot where my wife had continued to work for reasons outside of money. She liked her job. There was a lot of exciting things going on and what she was working on and wanted to keep going, but she was starting to talk to me and saying, Hey, I think I’m at a point where I’m ready to leave traditional work. And so I was all excited about how that would change things and the things we could do together. And then just before Christmas, I guess a little over three years ago now, I found out I had metastatic testicular cancer that had spread into my abdomen. And in those early stages, you don’t really have odds yet because they don’t know what they’re dealing with. And that was a pretty scary time. Then I eventually had to go through surgery and chemo and those odds shifted over time and turned in my favor. And now here I am, three years cancer free. That experience was certainly educational and also a big kick to the face, right in the time where I was excited for the greatest time in our lives.

Mindy:
How long did it take to from diagnosis to that first doctor’s appointment where they said, you don’t have cancer anymore,

Chris:
They don’t really say you don’t have cancer. There’s an important thing there, and I think there’s a lesson here. So I guess I’ll go down that path is I’ll answer your question. And that is I got the diagnosis I was in for surgery within the week because with Christmas coming up and covid challenges, they needed to staff this hospital and get that thing out as quick as they could. And so I was in for surgery quick. I then started chemo, I think it was in January, and then it was a little over three months later when all my cycles of treatment were done. It was a very fast but extremely aggressive treatment. I mean aggressive to the point of, I don’t remember several weeks of it. It’s a blackout. An entire, I was in a funk. And then after you’re done, they scan and find nothing in your blood work and then you start your clock.
And so from there, I’m three years past that point, the reason I said they don’t really say you’re cancer free is because I kept asking that when do I know I’m out of the woods is, do we know if the cancer’s still there? Do we know if it’s gone yet? And the care staff always kept focusing on, enjoy the amount of health you’ve got now, do the things you want to do, focus on today, focus on health because, and over time I shifted my thinking to the way they talked about it, which is you never know you’re safe. And so here I am now three years at one point, it was two years at one point it was a week, and you just got to make the decision to say, I’m healthy to say I’m going to go. I’m going to make plans, long-term plans, I’m going to do the things because if I don’t, it’s like I am paying interest on a debt I might not owe.

Carl:
So I think there’s a super important lesson in your story, Chris, because whatever financial independence comes up in the media, hits all these wonderful things that you can do with it. People living in camper vans that are 20 years old that make all this money or whatever, have this beautiful life, live in foreign countries, do these wonderful things. But at the core, the most supported thing is for stuff like this. When you got this diagnosis, you were already financially independent. So if the worst case scenario you would’ve passed, at least you would’ve done that knowing that your family was taken care of. Correct.

Chris:
Yeah, and it’s a great point. We do talk about all the, or it’s the great things that people do, those huge adventures get a lot of press. But yeah, knowing that if a scan came up and insurance denied it, I could still pay that scan and I would not be in financial distress. That was a huge comfort with knowing that if treatment went sideways and I wasn’t around, that my wife and kids would be taken care of. A huge amount of relief. And really in addition to that, I did do a lot of adventures like you alluded to prior to this diagnosis.
But the subtlety of having the time and space to just relax and do some of the things and not have regret is really valuable, more valuable than a five star fancy dinner or flight to Fiji. It’s more the subtleties. It’s more the way I felt going into it. So I think a lot of the flashy stuff is the sugar that helps medicine go down. I’m going to drive a Lamborghini, I’m going to stay in the penthouse suite or something. But when you actually get there, those things don’t do much for you. And it’s some of this other stuff I was talking about that that’s a big strength of it for me, at least

Carl:
One thought I’ve had. I’m so thankful for five because to back up a second, you just reminded me of this thought I had maybe a year or two ago if I did die or knew I was going to die, I would not be happy about it if I knew I was going to die soon. But the super honest truth is I would be happy with the way I lived. I don’t think I’d have any regrets. I don’t think we’ve held back, we’ve had great adventures. We’ve done the most with what we could. And it sounds like you could probably say the same thing, Chris, is that true?

Chris:
I think for the most part, yeah. There were a lot of things I did prior to the diagnosis that were great, that were things I always wanted to do since I was a kid, but I didn’t do it all. There’s other things. So there’s a project I’m working on now is probably more important than any of that, but I never did it. I never did it until after cancer. And there are reasons for that that have nothing to do with

Carl:
Money.

Chris:
I guess I just gave myself a lead in. I

Carl:
Is that the music?

Chris:
Music? It’s a music project and music has always been a big part of my life. It’s always been something I turned to when I had trouble talking about it, I could write about it and play songs about it, but I guess I took it for granted, my ability to sing and write and play and then going through chemo, I had to take some pretty aggressive glio mycin treatments that kind of wreck your lungs temporarily. And I lost my ability to sing. I remember in that time just kicking myself, why didn’t I, I’d been working on a set of songs for years, but oh, that one harmony part wasn’t quite right or this piece still needs work.
I think the reason I didn’t do it was less about money or time bandwidth and more about just identity about, it’s nice to have the comfort of potential rather than the terror of having to deliver on that potential. But going through that process, when I was lying in that bed, I said, if I get better, if I get through this, I’m going to get my voice back and I’m going to do that album and I’m going to face this. And so that’s been my life for the last several months and it’s something I’m really into right now.

Carl:
Wow. So do you think, it sounds like this album has been a lifelong thing, but maybe all this other stuff was a kick in the butt to do it. I liked what you said, the comfort of the potential of doing so that allows you to sit on there and contemplate the whole thing without doing much of anything versus actually putting the boots on the ground and doing it. How did you finally get off your butt and do this?

Chris:
Yeah, so I mean the threat of the threat of not being able to sing again and the threat of not making it through the chemo was enough to shake me to the core and say, you’re doing this. And so coming out of that, when I started to get health back, it took quite a while to get the voice back and I knew I was doing it. I had made a promise to myself while going through that treatment. So then it was just a matter of putting in the work, which was like anything a lot more than I envisioned. I tried to find a producer who was really good and I convinced him to do it. It really is. You’ve got a great way to enlist help when you tell people your cancer story, I found you get a lot of sympathy. Hopefully there’s talent there too. But yeah, he agreed to do the project, but he was booked out eight months, so I had to then wait another eight months. I had to find a singing partner to do all the harmonies and then round up musicians and then go through the personal self-doubt of I’m horrible and this music is no good one day. And then the next day I’m a rock star and I am the most amazing musician that’s ever lived. And so there’s all of that, a lot of self-discovery and a lot of fun and challenge at the same time.

Mindy:
What genre is your music?

Chris:
So this project is folk Americana. I think of bands like the Civil Wars or Watchhouse. It’s kind of folksy, indie folk singer-songwriter type stuff.

Mindy:
We have to take one final ad break, but we’ll be back with more after this.

Carl:
Thanks for sticking with us. What is the name of the album and where can people find it?

Chris:
Thanks, Carl. I’ve just started releasing music in March, the first single came out. So it’s Chris Russin, C-H-R-I-S, last name R-U-S-I-N. And I am everywhere on all the streamers. First song, leave It In the Snow came out in March. Second one’s going to come out on the 18th of April called Senders. And I’m releasing music every month of 2025, which is super fun for me and also another giant learning experience on how to do that.

Carl:
Awesome. What is next for you? You’ve done all these crazy things, had a possible near death experience, created an album. Do you have anything on the horizon or you just going to

Chris:
The book

Mindy:
Carl? The book. Oh, the

Chris:
Book? Yes, the book, book book that Mindy is co-writing with me. I’m just kidding. Early in my life and career, I think a big thing that helped me get to Fi was I started my career in the giant tech downturn of the early two thousands when I came to Denver and 13,000 tech workers had been laid off and I was trying to get a job with no experience and I felt, I felt like I didn’t have any security. And so for me, that drive always trying to get ahead and do the next thing was healthy and it helped me get defy. But now, fast forward, different stage in life, and we talked about this earlier in the talk, things that served you well then might not still serve you is I’ve done a lot. And I think I’m at the point where I don’t think of checklists or got to do the next big thing.
It’s more about what is fulfilling, what is exciting me, what is allowing me to do, build relationships in my life and connection. And so there’s no real checklist or next thing. It’s more like an evolving sort of what is healthy right now, what feels good for the next six months. And so yeah, for me it’s this music thing that’s that’s going to be a big effort for at least the next six months. And then beyond that, hey, I’ll be happy to still have health and time. I mean, maybe that’s the cancer perspective, right? And see what comes.

Mindy:
Chris, this has been a lot of fun, but you have been mentioning all this music and I want to hear some, can you play something for us please?

Chris:
Sure, yeah. This will be a fun experiment to see how it comes through over the speakers here on the podcast. Lemme grab a guitar.

Mindy:
And now for the world premiere of Chris’s music,

Chris:
I think what I’m going to play for you is we’ve talked a lot about the journey phi and then cancer and its lessons. And so I’ll play one that kind of Carl, you asked if I wrote any about that process. Here’s one about that

Speaker 4:
In the moonlight streaming across the water. I hear though it saw from the train tracks go everywhere. I never be my heart back home. She’s right here. There’s train out. It just keeps rolling. And I used to dream of finding time. Now I dream finding time. Love.

Mindy:
Wow, that was really good, Chris, I didn’t know you had such a good voice. Oh, thank you. And you’re a good guitarist too. Wow. I have no musical talent whatsoever. I can’t sing, I can’t play any instruments. I only sing in the car when it’s by myself.

Chris:
I hope it came through over the podcast. I don’t know if you could hear it.

Mindy:
Yeah, it came through great. I really appreciate you playing for us. That was such a good song. Thank you. And world debut,

Chris:
World premiere right here.

Mindy:
Yes, world premiere. So the next time you have a world premiere album, we’ll bring you back.

Chris:
Thanks so much,

Mindy:
Chris. This was so much fun. Is there any place people can find you online? I mean, there should be because you just released an album, so people need to go and download that. But where can people find you online

Chris:
For all things music? Chris russin.com is my homepage and you can find me anywhere you stream your music by just searching Chris last name, R-U-S-I-N for anything. Phi. I do blog. I don’t blog as much as I used to, but I’ve got a blog life outside the maze.com and you can contact me through that if you have questions or follow-ups on anything fire related. And yeah, it’s been a blast talking with you both.

Carl:
Thank you so much.

Mindy:
Thank you, Chris. And we will talk to you soon. That wraps up this episode of The Life After Fire Show with Carl Jensen. I am Mindy Jensen saying See you around the dig pig.